BikeHugger had a post the other day soliciting thoughts about Trek’s new line of urban bikes. Lots of them looked nice but with each, there was always something a little off about the bike, which got me thinking that these designers must not bike commute. Or if they do bike commute they just want to play head games.
Is it impossible for Big Bike (the healthier cousin to Big Tobacco with better looking calves) to make a good commuter bike? Must they always muck it up?
To aide Big Bike, I’d like to offer a design-guide of sorts for commuter bikes (warning: opinions to follow):
-A commuter bike should have eyelets for racks and fenders (very important)
-A commuter bike should come standard with racks and fenders (see why the first one was important?)
-Commuters like to drink on occasion, so would it kill you to put some braze-ons for water bottles?
-Since we’re commuting and not racing or generally bombing down a gravel path, please please restrain yourself from any manner of carbon or suspension forks (I know it’s hard. When you have a hammer everything looks like a nail.)
-Spokes are a good thing. Commuter bikes should not have low-spoke count, radially laced carbon spokes.
-Commuter bikes should have simple to service and easily replaceable brakes (ie. rim brakes). Lose the coaster brakes. Lose the drum brakes. Lose the roller brakes.
-Commuter bikes should have reliable and easily replaceable drive train. What’s with the carbon belt drives? If you offer a bike with an internal gear hub, please also offer a derailleur option.
-Commuter bikes should not be ugly. Just because we’re not paying out the nose for your latest carbon fiber wunderkind, doesn’t mean we should get the short end of the design stick.
-Commuter bikes should have good clearance for moderately wide tires and fenders.
If they can get that much right, I’d be happy. For extra credit they could add dynamo powered lighting, integrated racks, kickstand and a halfway decent saddle.
Was that so hard? What else would you like to see on a commuter bike? What bikes come close?
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I agree with most of your points, though I don’t see the need for derailleur versions of bikes with internal hub gears. The hub gears seem very reliable and low-maintenance. I also think drum and disc brakes can be lower maintenance than rim brakes.
I’ve been commuting 20 miles/day on an Novara Fusion (from REI) for the past couple of months, and it’s easily the best commuter bike I’ve tried. It has most of the features you describe (with a Shimano Nexus hub and drum brakes), and is not half bad looking either!
-pd
The Masi Speciale Commuter sorta comes close… but I might be lying.
It comes stock as a SS/Fixed because that is the REAL market it is being sold to… but it has a derailer hanger if you want to invest another few hundred bucks in getting a new rear wheel, set of derailers, shifters, crankset etc. to make it useful as a commuter-bike-for-places-it’s-not-flat.
It has rack and fender mounts, at least one water bottle cage (if you go through one water bottle, you should stop and take a rest anyway). I love the handlebars, the full steel frame/fork and there is a tail light built in to the seatpost.
Oh, and there’s QBPs new line of commuters: Civia… for when your Bentley is in the shop and you still need to get to work.
Commuter bike frames should have a longer chain stays so that our feet don’t rub against our panniers when we pedal.
Of course there is no such thing as THE commuter bike. variety of bikes for a variety of riders.
A good commuter isn’t far from a good tourer. But then Big Bike screws that up too. Bomb proof wheels, fender clearance (including toe overlap), and a parts spec that leans towards reliability and not racing is a must.
Dominic, I LOVE your comment about the Civia — my thoughts exactly!
What’s wrong with a carbon belt drive? Couple that beauty with a 8 or 14-speed internal hub and you’ve got a virtually maintenance-free drivetrain. Of course, it’s way too early to tell if that carbon belt is as durable as the makers are claiming, but it shows promise…good promise.
I mostly side with Bikingbristol, though — while racks and fenders seem to be required items for a competent commuting rig, there are folks out there for whom a 16 lb. carbon wonderbike is their ideal commuter. There IS no “perfect commuter bike”.
I believe in versatility, of course, so gearing, cargo-carrying and staying dry are on my short list of desired attributes, but I’ve been known to commute on a one-speed, bare bones roadracing bike with none of those features…and I still love doing it.
Finally, mechanical disc brakes are head and shoulders above any rim brake — totally rainproof and easy to maintain. I’m not a fan of rollers and drums, though.
That reminds me…I’ve been seeing quite a few “city bikes” — upright urban machines — on the market with radially-laced front wheels (our friend Elizabeth in Chicago can testify to my rants about those!). What’s up with THAT?!?
I mostly agree, I have a Redline 925 and in the past 6 months I have had to do a lot to “redesign” it from how the factory settings.
Never make a commuter a single speed, that was the FIRST thing I changed on the 925… I have internal 5 spd now.
As for the knock on the Civia… well sometimes commuting and love for bikes comes together… Just like Lexus and cars go together…. Its cost probably cannot be justified but neither can a luxury car…. but I do like the bike.
Internal gear hubs are, IMO, preferable to derailleur gears for a commuter. (The SRAM iMotion-9 looks better to me than the otherwise-wonderful Nexus/Alfine because of the spacing of the gear ratios, but I can’t get my hands on one. ) Otherwise I agree 100% with the original post.
I ride a mountain bike (IO guess now it’s a “hybrid”) to work every morning…what’s wrong with having suspension on the fork?
I’m not sure they’d need to come with racks, so long as the eyelets are there. Let the user choose their own racks! I also agree that internal hubs are not a bad thing: they’ve come a long way in recent years.
But, for the love of god, a friggin’ KICKSTAND! If you’re not racing or riding singletrack, there’s no reason not to have one. They’re not “just for kids.” They make loading racks far easier!
Those Euro-style locks that immobilize the front wheel are cool too, when you’re popping into a cafe for 30 seconds or walking up to a stall at the farmers’ market. Of course, they’re only really useful when you have a kickstand…
I went shopping for a “commuter” bike this spring and found nothing worth the name. There are so many elements that go into making a good commuter that I’ve come to believe it’s much better to buy a frame and then add bits that suit your need (tires, rack, fenders, lights, bars etc) rather than buying a package bike.
So can we safely say different strokes for different folks?
+1 on a kickstand…when I built a commuter bike for my wife, she took one look at it and said, “where’s the kickstand, dude?” And she hounded me until I scrounged one up for her.
Lonely Bike Rack, this discussion appears periodically on this and many other commuter-friendly sites…it tends to be an exercise in futility, because of the “different strokes for different folks” philosophy. There’s no way to build or spec a bike that will please every user and every conceivable use.
I would like to see more come with disc brakes for good all weather performance. Cable would be great, they are easy to adjust and you don’t have all the fluids to worry about like with hydros.
The carbon belt drive looks like it COULD be a great idea, but I don’t think its time has come yet.
+1 on the kickstand, especially with integrated racks
+1 for internal hubs – clean, easy to deal with, no deraileur cage to screw up
and a disagreement on the drum brakes – riding in the rain (Baltimore) and wet I love having that reliable front brake unimpeded by water on the road or rim
I hear ya Ghost! I think my best bet is to have a few more bikes to cover all the bases. That should go over nice back at the house…
+1 on the discs, honestly if you follow the directions mechanical discs such as the Avid BB7 are as easy to setup as rim brakes if not easier. Discs certainly have a distinct advantage in terms of all weather stopping not to mention the fact that they save your rims by using an easily replaceable steel rotor as it’s braking contact.
My favorite thing about rim brakes vs. disc brakes: I can walk in to ANY bike shop and several big box stores (if need be) and get new pads. Try that with your disc brakes.
Good point, Dominic…and I can’t imagine it will be that much better in the future — too many varieties of disc pads out there.
+1 on discs, low maintenance and killer stopping power for those “close calls.”
Interesting discussions! First, I agree to these two points:
-There are different commuting styles (probably why it’s so hard to pigeon hole it).
-Any bike can be used as a commuting bike.
I agree to these two points, BUT I don’t think that doesn’t mean we can’t identify the boilerplate MUST HAVEs of a commuter bike.
It would be like saying, well, I can ride any bike on the road and in a race so any bike is a “road” bike. You could, but there is some criteria defined party by marketing and partly by practicality.
So if we were Big Bike and had our own marketing wing and we decided to create our own classification of a “Commuter” bike, what would it look like?
Well…let’s look at a typical commute (if there is such a thing). 5- 10 miles on paved roads. 200 days a year. Speeds between 10-15mph. Riding through pot holes/inclement weather. Probably carrying stuff to work/school/market.
-So, one thing we could possibly due without right away are knobby tires and full suspension since its on paved roads, right?
-Since it’s going to be heavily used, then carbon bits probably aren’t a priority so we can lose the carbon fork.
-It’s going to be raining or wet, so some fenders would be nice.
-We’d like to get stuff off our back, so a rack would be nice.
-Drivetrain and brakes are obviously up in the air depending on weather and personal fetishes. I would argue that if we look at what bike shops service most, rim brakes and derailleur systems probably have an edge, right?
The crappiest of crappiest bike shops will atleast have brake cables and brake pads if nothing else and probably some junky derailleurs.
I don’t think this is all an exercise in futility per se. An exercise in futility are bike manufactures selling us crappy bikes with half thought-out designs and labeling them as commuter bikes.
Maybe they honestly don’t know what makes a good commuter bike and it’s our job to tell them. Otherwise, we’ll keep getting “commuters” with 20 spoke radially laced front wheels with no eyelets, hydraulic disc brakes and a full carbon suspension-fork with 8 inches of travel (of course I exaggerate a little).
As for disc brakes vs. V-brakes…I don’t mean to be completely facetious here, but I don’t find disc brakes all that easy to adjust…maybe I’m slow?!
The last time I had to center my V-brakes, I turned one screw a quarter of turn
The last time I had to center my BB7s, I had to loosen the centering bolts, turn the dials 28 clicks or something to the right, re-tighten the centering bolts, then back them off at a 2:1 ratio….
am I missing something?
Does someone have a better tutorial than the park one that will make it seem easier?
“An exercise in futility are bike manufactures selling us crappy bikes with half thought-out designs and labeling them as commuter bikes. ”
I’ll drink to that, at least —
Still, there are folks out there who are perfectly comfortable and satisfied commuting on a bike that many (most?) of us would question.
Oh, and Russ, my use of “exercise in futility” was not meant as a slam in any way…merely that whenever the subject comes up, there’s never a conclusive list of “must haves”, but certainly a lot of “would like to haves” or “really desires”. And a LOT of dissent due to the different needs of different commuters (and their terrains).
Interestingly, Performance bike is selling ‘Bike Commuter Combos’
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile_combo.cfm?SKU=26017&estore_ID=1800&subcategory_ID=&CFID=2366110&CFTOKEN=38794148
http://www.performancebike.com/shop/profile_combo.cfm?SKU=26018&estore_ID=1800&subcategory_ID=&CFID=2366110&CFTOKEN=38794148
That Schwinn is pretty decked out!
For me, the dream commuter bike has:
1) internal hub
2) full chain guard (although I find the belt drive intriguing)
3) dynamo lighting
4) disc brakes
5) fenders and rack
6) kickstand
I live in Seattle, so between the 9 months of rain and short days during the winter, a low-maintenance drivetrain and lighting are essential. The bikes I’ve seen that have most of these features are:
Breezer Uptown
Specialized GlobeCity IG8
REI Novara Fusion (unavailable right now, but according to BikeHugger, the 2009 version will have disc brakes instead of drum brakes)
I will happily ride one of these (when I can afford to get one
I have yet to find the perfect commuter bike. I have found several near misses. I commuted for years on a too small Raleigh Sports Standard This was a bottom of the line Raleigh 3 speed. I has taken massive abuse over the years and is still chugging along. I prefer IGH and drum/roller brakes over most other choices, easy to keep adjusted and only need occasional maintenance. I love generator hubs and hope eventually that the will become standard equipment on more bikes and the price will come down a bit. Rack and fender mounts are a must have. I like having the braze on’s for the Axa style rear wheel lock. There are quite a few bikes out there that meet the basic requirements, but there is always room for improvement, and availability needs to become better. I have had to special order too many things from the EU that should be available in the US.
Aaron
Moe, that’s EXACTLY one of the bikes I was talking about…if you look closely at the Schwinn, it has a radially-laced front wheel! Great for racing or track use, crappy for rough streets…
What about Dynamics bikes with their drive shaft and internal hub, clean and easy maintenance?
Well, most touring bikes make excellent commuters. The Surly Long Haul Trucker and Raleigh Sojourn, to name just two. Commuter bike does not necessarily mean flat bar bike.
Raleigh has put together a nice bike in the One Way. Steel frame, fenders, fat tires but a free/fixed. Their new Clubman is basically a geared One Way but doesn’t come with fenders. Pics on their website show eyelets for rack and fenders.
GR is right, as usual. Different commutes mean different bikes. I need a road bike that can carry some stuff, since I have a long commute. Somebody else would be best served by a flat bar commuter. And still someone else could find a beach cruiser perfect.
Can “big bike” do it right? Sure. It would just take somebody as smart as Sky Yaeger or Grant Peterson at product manager. My Bridgestone XO-2 is as close to perfect a commuter as I’ve seen in a factory bike. And when Sky was at Bianchi there was the Castro Valley, which was a drop bar 1×9(?) commuter—complete with fenders, rack, dynamo hub AND light.
Loaded commuter bikes don’t tend to sell. Why?
Steve, I like the concept of the shaft drive coupled with an internally-geared hub…I was quite pleased with the performance and the maintenance aspects of the Dynamic, but I was not a huge fan of the overall platform — too upright for my taste. Put that system on a traditional road bike frame with drop bars and I’d buy one in a heartbeat!
There’s various reasons why complete commuter bikes don’t sell very well.
-Type of bike depends on the distance/terrain. Not every one is blessed with a short, flat, bike friendly commute.
-The accessories add cost to the bike, which deters some entry level buyers. Novices question the need, while more seasoned riders strip/upgrade/use what they already have depending on their own tastes/needs/enviroment.
-Perception. A bunch of people see cycling as a recreational activity, or a way for DUI types to get around after losing their licenses. As such, the bike is perceived as a toy rather than what it really is- a sound transportation alternative.
Personally, I am beginning to think that the school systems in this country should modify the old Home Economics to include transportation analysis. I’m not anti-this or pro-that, I’m more about picking the right tool for the job.
From Big Bike, what I like are lines of bikes like Trek’s Soho, or Giant’s TranSend series–a range of commuters featuring everything from lower end derailleur bikes with rim brakes, to higher end bikes with IGH, disk brakes, and various accoutrements.
What I’ve yet to see is any of the big bike companies introduce a line of commuter gear, with bike hardware to go along with it. Frames that come with brazons that accommodate both rim and disk brakes so that an owner could go whichever way the preferred. With an expansive line of products–plastic fenders and better coverage metal ones; disk brake upgrade; suspension fork/post option; batter light system alongside a dynamo hub upgrade. The kind of thing that a commuter could walk in to a store, pick out a base model that best matches their taste/style/budget, and then a whole catalog of factory add-ons they could throw at it. Imagine the profit–for the company and store–of selling the add-ons at time of purchase. And convenience for the customer. Or customer self confidence knowing that something they buy is part of a system designed to work together, not some aftermarket product they might have to fuss with, or even a shop might have to rig somehow.
Flip side is that I just this season built up a ‘perfect’ commuter the way I wanted it, starting with a frame and only getting the parts I wanted on it. Actually easier and more satisfying than getting a stock bike and swapping parts. But far beyond what lots of people might want to do for simple transportation.
I’m relatively new to cycling and bike commuting. My commute is 40mi round trip and I started on a cheaper (~$300) swhinn hybrid with racks, fenders and all the “commuter” bells and whistles. After a couple of months, when I was sure that was going to stick with it (love riding!), I decided to invest a little more and go bike shopping.
One thing that was important to me was to get a bike that could support and a rack and that could have fenders, but my goal was to get a bike that was light and fast so that I could shorten my commute a little. I opted to change my habits a little, by leaving my laptop at work most days, driving one day a week and bringing a weeks worth of work clothes. This way I can leave the house with almost nothing and I’ll tell you the ride is sooo much funner with the light load.
I ended up getting the 2008 Trek Portland and after 1000 mi I like it fine, actually I like it a lot. I have to say I don’t need something maintenance free as I enjoy cleaning it up and giving it an overhall every couple hundred miles. It will take a rack and fenders when and if I need it, (it doesn’t rain much in southern California). So far I have not broke a spoke, but it is a concern with the reduce count wheels.
My point being that all these “must haves” for a commuter bike are just silly as everyone will have different wants and needs, for me having a bike thats flexible was worth giving up some speed and weight, but a full feature commuter would not of made me happy. Also I like that the bike companies are coming out with different designs, some won’t work, but thats how things will evolve, over time we will all benefit from the innovation by having more choice which will give each of us a better chance at finding whats right for us. Don’t get down on a company for selling something you don’t want, just don’t buy it.
While I agree with most of the sentiment, itsn’t it a little hypocritical to call for user serviceable parts , then tout hub gears? and for the record, drum brakes are incredibly simply to service once you know what your doing. All you have to do it pop one open and it all makes sense. They work just fine, so I see no reason to avoid them. That being said they aren’t my preference, but they still work well on a commuter bike.
come to think of it, that’s about all I disagree with
@mercutio stencil…hub gears require MINIMAL maintenance as in add a bit of oil when you remember and they will run for thousands of miles, unlike most dérailleur systems. They are user servicable but in my experience with the Sturmey Archer AW maintenance is seldom if ever needed. I have on hub with over 30,000 miles on it that has never been torn down. My experience has shown that if they are oiled regularly and ridden regularly no other work is required.
Aaron
I agree with that — although Sheldon Brown offered detailed overhaul tips for the Nexus hub, it implies that generally, you just ride it until it wears out, and get another one. Or separate it into its major components, relube using the special grease and reassemble at VERY infrequent intervals.
@Mike- I get the whole ‘outfitted by the factory’ concept. Sort of like how Toyota handles the Scion brand. Have a couple of different models with their different drive train options in various sizes. Then after the test ride, the potential customer could log into an interactive site and select what features that they would like added. Makes sense, so it won’t work.
@ Russ
There’s NO reason you should have had to go through all that to center BB7′s. The last time I had to adjust mine due to pad wear it was 1 click per side.
Did you not follow the directions?
Just trying to help
http://www.sram.com/_media/techdocs/bbdb-mtn-160-install.pdf
Didn’t Trek take a bath on a fully loaded European styled commuter a few years ago? I seem to remember hearing stories about dealers having them on the floor for years unsold.
I don’t get the sentiment against the carbon fork – they put a carbon fork on practically every bike nowadays to give you a smoother, easier on the hands ride. Sounds like a good idea for a commuter bike to me.
Disc brakes can be very useful as well if you’re biking in rain and snow.
I don’t know what kind of idiot doesn’t put waterbottle brazeons on the frame – even high end road bikes have them! I don’t really know why a lot of bike don’t have the eyelets for a rack, though. It’s annoying.
But like someone else said, the ideal commuter bike just varies from person to person. If I rode 3 miles to work my 1st priority might be cheap. But if I rode 15 miles, suddenly speed is a much higher priority.
Carbon forks may give a smoother ride but aren’t very useful for putting on racks or anything else.
Steel is also very comfortable with the added practicality of being able to put a front rack on it without worrying if you’re putting too much stress on it. Also, I’d be less paranoid about cracking a steel fork as oppose to a front fork.
My feeling is that many technological “advances” are put on bikes as selling points but don’t add to the overall real-world practicality of the bike.
I’ll concede to disc brakes in certain weather, but I still don’t buy that they’re easier to maintain, set-up or fix.
I just recently picked up a Spec Tricross Sport for use as a heavy commuter, and it has a carbon fork. It also has threaded inserts for fenders (near the dropout) and another set about halfway down the fork that I can only assume is for a front rack. I had my LBS mount rear rack and fenders before I ever rode it, and have had no complaints.
Also I tend to think worries about carbon fiber cracking or delaminating are somewhat outdated. Early carbon composites were prone to this, but there have been major advances in the process in the last couple of decades, and in general I suspect they are stronger than steel, and definitely less fatigue prone than Al.
full fenders are not negotiable. they need to be standard, as most aftermarket ones tend to be cheap plastic crap, like mine. aluminum or steel, by preference.
i wish i had a chainguard, might need to see about adding that. lights are not a luxury, and i’d prefer ones built in to keep them permanently attached. haven’t found good enough aftermarket ones yet. (i want generator power, since i’d just forget to keep fresh batteries in them otherwise, but that’s mostly personal taste.)
i made my bike into a commuter/grocery getter by adding grocery baskets to the rack, a pair of those folding ones that flatten down neatly when i’m not using them. since i never ride far at all, five miles at most i’d say, this is convenient and the extra weight is negligible. a good optional extra, but maybe not a necessity. certainly better than stealable, soft, cloth panniers.
derailleur shifting works well enough for me, but i wouldn’t turn down a good 7- or 8-speed internal hub either. disc brakes look too attractive to thieves around my town, i think.
seating position and handlebars are the big issue for me. upright, with comfort and good control. a nice, stable front fork with a decent rake to it. pedals and feet out of the way of everything else. a racing crouch or converted mountain bike just aren’t right, either one.
What about the Trek Soho? I know people have issues with Trek, but it appears to be close to what a lot of people want – an 8-speed hub, fenders, chainguard, mounts for a rear rack, disc brakes, puncture resistant tires and, saving the best for last, two bottle mounts. Maybe the belt drive technology is too new to trust when it comes to ensuring you get to work? Or maybe people just don’t like aluminum?
http://www.trekbikes.com/us/en/bikes/urban/soho/soho/
I’ll second John’s comments about the puncture resistant tires. It seems like an afterthought, but a bike sold as a commuter should come standard with kevlar lined tires. In my experience the difference is huge, and it’s absolutely worth the extra to buy the better tires.
I’m also a big fan of the internally geared hub. I hope I never have to buy or service another derailleur. When I used to commute year round in Boston, I would have to clean and regrease my chain and derailleurs on almost a weekly basis because of the dirty salty slop on the roads in the never ending winters. Now, the thing I love most about my shaft driven Dynamic is its Nexus 7 hub, which has been absolutely bulletproof in the first 4500km.
Rack and fender mounting points and an upright geometry for visibility in traffic are necessaries for a commuter bike IMHO.
I’ll second the recommendation of the Breezer Uptown8. For my 3-mile commute, which involves a couple of short but steep (8-10%) grades, its 8-speed Nexus hub is fine, and it has everything else I want too. I slapped on a couple of collapsible Wald baskets on either side of the rack (because of the thick rack tubing, I needed to use a couple of worm-gear hose clamps and some zip ties to attach the baskets). I particularly like the full chainguard on the current model.
For a commuter bicycle:
A battery-powered light is superior to a dynamo-powered light (the latter has many negatives, chief among them: it dims/ceases when speed diminishes …)
Kickstands make little sense; they add weight, but are used only when the bicycle is not being ridden and, when so used, are an unstable way to park a bike.
But the upside to the dynamo light is its permanence. No batteries to worry about. No forgetting the light, which can happen with lights with internal batteries.
The hub dynamos are supposed to be magnitudes better than the old tire rubbing dynamos.