Comments on: Can’t We All Just Get Along? http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/ Bike Your Drive! Wed, 08 Feb 2012 22:39:52 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.4 By: BluesCat http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20497 BluesCat Fri, 25 Dec 2009 21:35:42 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20497 I was going to avoid mixing it up here about VC vs. Infrastructure Cyclists (IC), but Barb's spot-on comment about the VC vs. IC debate keeping cyclists themselves divided and conquered by the anti-bike transportation people rang a bell with me so here I go. On my commute to work, dedicated bike lanes are not necessarily the safest way to go; I discussed this in a post on the Recumbent Riders Social Club forum: http://rrsc.forumotion.com/commuting-f8/my-phoenix-commute-redux-t720.htm . Basically, the only way to make a separate bike infrastructure work is if you can keep it COMPLETELY SEPARATE. The second a bicyclist has to ride out of a separate infrastructure, and mix it up with motorized traffic, he or she is MORE at risk than if he or she was sharing the road at all times. We need to build a transportation system which provides useful, crosstown roads which put bicyclist's needs ahead of motorist's. Motorists AND bicyclists should be able to know, instantly, if the thoroughfare they are traveling gives priority to cars or to bikes. Separate, multi-use paths are okay, but ONLY if they empty out onto a Bikes First road. I was going to avoid mixing it up here about VC vs. Infrastructure Cyclists (IC), but Barb’s spot-on comment about the VC vs. IC debate keeping cyclists themselves divided and conquered by the anti-bike transportation people rang a bell with me so here I go.

On my commute to work, dedicated bike lanes are not necessarily the safest way to go; I discussed this in a post on the Recumbent Riders Social Club forum: http://rrsc.forumotion.com/commuting-f8/my-phoenix-commute-redux-t720.htm . Basically, the only way to make a separate bike infrastructure work is if you can keep it COMPLETELY SEPARATE. The second a bicyclist has to ride out of a separate infrastructure, and mix it up with motorized traffic, he or she is MORE at risk than if he or she was sharing the road at all times.

We need to build a transportation system which provides useful, crosstown roads which put bicyclist’s needs ahead of motorist’s. Motorists AND bicyclists should be able to know, instantly, if the thoroughfare they are traveling gives priority to cars or to bikes. Separate, multi-use paths are okay, but ONLY if they empty out onto a Bikes First road.

]]> By: Barb Chamberlain http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20491 Barb Chamberlain Fri, 25 Dec 2009 06:11:32 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20491 I just commented on a good piece by Neal Peirce on bike policy that has a similar divide in the comments there, between people who want separate infrastructure and people who advocate for riding as traffic: http://citiwire.net/post/1560 Making it an either/or question is a great way to divide and conquer. Let the cyclists wrangle amongst themselves about bike paths and they won't unite and say that all streets should work for all users. @BarbChamberlain @Bike2WrkSpokane www.biketoworkspokane.org I just commented on a good piece by Neal Peirce on bike policy that has a similar divide in the comments there, between people who want separate infrastructure and people who advocate for riding as traffic: http://citiwire.net/post/1560

Making it an either/or question is a great way to divide and conquer. Let the cyclists wrangle amongst themselves about bike paths and they won’t unite and say that all streets should work for all users.

@BarbChamberlain
@Bike2WrkSpokane
http://www.biketoworkspokane.org

]]> By: 2whls3spds http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20488 2whls3spds Thu, 24 Dec 2009 12:26:41 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20488 I always acknowledge other people on bikes, regardless of who they are or what they are riding. If they choose not to acknowledge me that is their choice. As the years have progressed I have slowed a bit and enjoy life at a more reasonable pace. I have also gotten to know a few of my local riders, like John who is currently riding a pink Huffy mtb. He rides more miles in a week at 8mph than some roadies I know ride on a weekend. It is his only form of transportation and he lives 15 miles outside of town! Most people would assume he is a DUI loser, but they would be dead wrong. He is 68 years old and retired from factory work 5 years ago when the plant closed, he worked at that plant for 45 years. He lives on a piece of property that has been in his family for close to 100 years. Kagi back up in post #34 gets it. VC is good in many situations but doesn't work in many others, if we want to have an increase in cycling we need properly designed infrastructure. IMHO the rabid VC people overlook the basics of physics and the attention span of today's drivers. Aaron I always acknowledge other people on bikes, regardless of who they are or what they are riding. If they choose not to acknowledge me that is their choice. As the years have progressed I have slowed a bit and enjoy life at a more reasonable pace. I have also gotten to know a few of my local riders, like John who is currently riding a pink Huffy mtb. He rides more miles in a week at 8mph than some roadies I know ride on a weekend. It is his only form of transportation and he lives 15 miles outside of town! Most people would assume he is a DUI loser, but they would be dead wrong. He is 68 years old and retired from factory work 5 years ago when the plant closed, he worked at that plant for 45 years. He lives on a piece of property that has been in his family for close to 100 years.

Kagi back up in post #34 gets it. VC is good in many situations but doesn’t work in many others, if we want to have an increase in cycling we need properly designed infrastructure.

IMHO the rabid VC people overlook the basics of physics and the attention span of today’s drivers.

Aaron

]]> By: Powerful Pete http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20479 Powerful Pete Wed, 23 Dec 2009 17:31:57 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20479 I always say hello to all riders I meet. Whatever bike they are riding. We have enough trouble dealing with traffic and all the other road hazards without creating trouble for ourselves within the cycling community! Thing is, here in Rome it is not such a big deal - not too many mtb-ers in the area, so most people who ride are roadies. And anyway, better to be polite - you never know if that guy you are passing is going to be faster than you! ;-) I always say hello to all riders I meet. Whatever bike they are riding.

We have enough trouble dealing with traffic and all the other road hazards without creating trouble for ourselves within the cycling community!

Thing is, here in Rome it is not such a big deal – not too many mtb-ers in the area, so most people who ride are roadies.

And anyway, better to be polite – you never know if that guy you are passing is going to be faster than you! ;-)

]]> By: BluesCat http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20467 BluesCat Mon, 21 Dec 2009 16:13:26 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20467 @Raiyn: Thumbs up. Thanks for the explanation, I kinda figured I knew the meaning of GOB, but I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same thing. LOL, yeah, when my first grandchild came into the world on August 28th of this year, I was ... uh ... reacquainted with the alternative meanings of "baby's butt." @Raiyn:
Thumbs up. Thanks for the explanation, I kinda figured I knew the meaning of GOB, but I wanted to be sure we were talking about the same thing.

LOL, yeah, when my first grandchild came into the world on August 28th of this year, I was … uh … reacquainted with the alternative meanings of “baby’s butt.”

]]> By: Raiyn http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20465 Raiyn Sun, 20 Dec 2009 21:04:08 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20465 @BluesCat: I've explained this on the site before, but just to cover my bases..... “Guys on Bikes” is a blanket term to cover other categories including “salmon”, “bike ninjas”, “DUI Specials”, etc. Basically people who either don’t know proper technique / bike safety or couldn’t give the contents of a cat’s litter box to learn. In addition for the record : “guys on bikes” when used as a counterpoint to “cyclist” bears no deference to race, creed, gender, economic status, or any orientation other than direction in traffic. In regards to the baby's butt thing: Yeah I got it, I was just playing around with the expression. @BluesCat:
I’ve explained this on the site before, but just to cover my bases…..
“Guys on Bikes” is a blanket term to cover other categories including “salmon”, “bike ninjas”, “DUI Specials”, etc. Basically people who either don’t know proper technique / bike safety or couldn’t give the contents of a cat’s litter box to learn.
In addition for the record : “guys on bikes” when used as a counterpoint to “cyclist” bears no deference to race, creed, gender, economic status, or any orientation other than direction in traffic.

In regards to the baby’s butt thing: Yeah I got it, I was just playing around with the expression.

]]> By: Chip Haynes http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20455 Chip Haynes Fri, 18 Dec 2009 16:29:06 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20455 With close to 7 billion people on Planet Earth, I think you'll find everything is nothing but a loose collection of splinter groups. No two people truly agree on absolutely everything. I was riding in to work earlier this week, and stopped to see if I could help a guy fixing a flat on his racing bike. The group of racers he was with was more interstered in my 35-year old folding bike than I was in their like-new racing bikes, but we did have a good time all around making fun of the guy with the flat. See? It's all about finding common ground. With close to 7 billion people on Planet Earth, I think you’ll find everything is nothing but a loose collection of splinter groups. No two people truly agree on absolutely everything.

I was riding in to work earlier this week, and stopped to see if I could help a guy fixing a flat on his racing bike. The group of racers he was with was more interstered in my 35-year old folding bike than I was in their like-new racing bikes, but we did have a good time all around making fun of the guy with the flat.

See? It’s all about finding common ground.

]]> By: BluesCat http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20454 BluesCat Fri, 18 Dec 2009 15:37:42 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20454 @Raiyn: I'm not sure I understand the GOB reference, but you reminded me of one altercation I DID have with another person on a bike. He was a scruffy character on a beat up Schwinn who went riding by flinging comments at me such as "Go back to Mexico" and "God bless America." It took me a couple of seconds to realize he thought my long wheelbase recumbent was a cruiser bike like all the Hispanic kids ride. I was gonna catch up to him to set him straight, but I was already out of breath as a result of laughing so hard. Not sure that qualifies as an example of what Ghost Rider is talking about in this article. Oh, and maybe you are confused about that expression: it's talking about TEXTURE, NOT appearance or olfactory quality! @Raiyn: I’m not sure I understand the GOB reference, but you reminded me of one altercation I DID have with another person on a bike. He was a scruffy character on a beat up Schwinn who went riding by flinging comments at me such as “Go back to Mexico” and “God bless America.” It took me a couple of seconds to realize he thought my long wheelbase recumbent was a cruiser bike like all the Hispanic kids ride. I was gonna catch up to him to set him straight, but I was already out of breath as a result of laughing so hard.

Not sure that qualifies as an example of what Ghost Rider is talking about in this article.

Oh, and maybe you are confused about that expression: it’s talking about TEXTURE, NOT appearance or olfactory quality!

]]> By: Stuart M. http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20453 Stuart M. Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:50:02 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20453 Japan is more like Holland . No one thinks bicycling is anything special. If you are a (poor) housewife, a teenager under age 18 or lost your drivers license for whatever reason, a cheap "mamachari" is your only option. Rarely do I see a Japanese on an expensive mountain bike or racing bike. The "fixie" craze has just hit Tokyo and everything takes a while to get to us in Hokkaido, so maybe there will be more bicycle variety on the Japanese streets soon. Unfortunately, the "multitaskers" here are usually the bicyclists! There are strict laws against using a cell phone while driving anything, but I often see young bicyclists with one hand on the handlebars and the other texting away. There is no greeting of other bicyclists. I usually apologize to pedestrians as I pass if I have to share a narrow sidewalk with them. Heck, the Japanese ask you if it's okay to recline their seat if they are sitting in front of you in a train or airplane! Japan is more like Holland . No one thinks bicycling is anything special. If you are a (poor) housewife, a teenager under age 18 or lost your drivers license for whatever reason, a cheap “mamachari” is your only option. Rarely do I see a Japanese on an expensive mountain bike or racing bike. The “fixie” craze has just hit Tokyo and everything takes a while to get to us in Hokkaido, so maybe there will be more bicycle variety on the Japanese streets soon. Unfortunately, the “multitaskers” here are usually the bicyclists! There are strict laws against using a cell phone while driving anything, but I often see young bicyclists with one hand on the handlebars and the other texting away. There is no greeting of other bicyclists. I usually apologize to pedestrians as I pass if I have to share a narrow sidewalk with them. Heck, the Japanese ask you if it’s okay to recline their seat if they are sitting in front of you in a train or airplane!

]]> By: Raiyn http://www.bikecommuters.com/2009/12/14/cant-we-all-just-get-along-2/#comment-20452 Raiyn Thu, 17 Dec 2009 22:43:41 +0000 http://www.bikecommuters.com/?p=3159#comment-20452 While I have no love for fixed gears, the main me vs. them is cyclists vs. GOB's (Guys on Bikes). @BluesCat Your face is rash-y and foul smelling? j/k I just never liked that expression. While I have no love for fixed gears, the main me vs. them is cyclists vs. GOB’s (Guys on Bikes).

@BluesCat
Your face is rash-y and foul smelling? j/k I just never liked that expression.

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